A Page With No Name: Hops

James McClure:

[I forget, are you using a pen name?]

Man, we had some great beers on Friday. I'm curious, how do we start the Beer of the week feature?

I would like to start with Nemesis (I'm tempted to go back and get another glass while it is still on tap). To me it's the best beer that I have ever had. I still don't know how Founders did what they did.

Usually, I think that naming other tastes (not even close to beer) and comparing the beer to them is ridiculous. Here I'll make an exception and say that I can actually taste something that reminds me of Dark chocolate (It still sucks when you say that porters/stouts taste like coco-nibs. What are Coco-nibs, and where have you been to taste them.). There is an interesting blend of flavors that balances the total taste of the beer. This black barleywine is like no other un-aged barleywine that I have ever tasted. The only thing that comes close is some of the better 3-4 year bottle conditioned barleywines from last year's festival. I would choose one of these as my first drink in pretty much every month that has an "R". I gave two friends who don't like strong tasting beers one of these; they both ordered a second glass (regretfully, at 12% abv).

The Duck-Rabbit Milk stout was a very good Stout. I know that I like a beer that finishes a little cleaner than you do; this one was pretty much perfect for me. Really, I understand that you think the last taste in your mouth is watery; I just don't like face-making-flavors in my beer.

Finally, I thought that the Bell's Winter White Ale was good. More of what I've come to expect from Bell's. The name is descriptive, and the beer is a solid example of what you expected. This would be a great beer for any holiday occasion/

event - perfect to bring to parties. By the way, Bell's has a Barley Wine: Third Coast. It will become available Nov/Dec, through the spring.

Now, how do we start a feature? Where will it be posted? What type of text do we need to add? Etc...

Frank Leyland:

Warrior Hops

I get the "side bar" format (I’m done calling them “tid bits” because I want people to take us seriously) with info, video, and images from our discussion topic. However, beer of the week and “Say Say's” won't fit the topic and thus are satellite issues. I get that they are important, but I don't know if they should be in the same voice (i.e. two pricks arguing). What is the approach here?

Also, I dislike the terms you use to describe after taste (cleaner and face-making flavors). They are slanted towards an anti-after taste agenda. It sounds like you are trying to ban the use of warrior hops

James McClure:

Of course they are slanted. When you have the opportunity to label your argument you take advantage. I imagine that you will have trouble convincing our readers that face-making flavors are a good thing for beer. I'm also pretty sure that our readers desire a subtle, clean finish to their beer.

The bottom line is this. I'm sick of beer snobs looking down their nose at anyone who doesn't like the "complexity and flavor" of some beer that is over-hopped, unbalanced, and over 7% ABV (alcohol by volume). Do I like a lot of strong, highly stylized, micro-brewed beers? Yes. However, many of them are too strong, taste raw, and leave an after-taste that makes you gag as you swallow. Strong is good, but it cannot come at the expense of taste.

The argument that people like these raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors is close to ridiculous (similar to my argument that people think coffee is delicious, but everyone likes it better with cream and sugar). If people really liked the strong, raw flavors of these beers, then they would prefer a young barley wine to one that has been cellar conditioned for a few years.

http://www.brewwiki.com/index.php/American_Barleywine No one has ever said that they prefer a barley wine at less than one year when compared to one that is 3 or 4 years old. Why? Because the bitter, raw flavors of both the hops and grains have been allowed to mellow in the aged beer - because you don't gag on the bitter-alcohol flavor when you swallow.

At the end of the day there are many expensive "good" beers that are not good beers. Taste, see what you like, and drink what tastes good to you. Too many people are afraid to tell the

pretentious a-hole next to them that they don't like gagging while drinking their beer - that they don't like being left with the taste of roasted death in their mouth after every sip.

Frank Leyland:

You can make up any words you want to slant the argument in your direction, it is my job to point out the fact that you are using hyperbolic language meant to persuade without facts. I would like to point out that you have continued to use absurd rhetoric (raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors) in your inane discussion. Speaking of which, let's delve into the "points" you have attempted to make.

First off, I totally agree with you that snobbery of any kind is to be generally avoided. Taste is a personal matter and you should be allowed to like what you like, regardless of what some a-hole tells you. That being said you should:

1. Not care what an asshole thinks

2. Be able to have a discussion about the taste of a beer without crying like a little bitch when the other person doesn't totally agree with you.

Someone who has a different opinion and is willing to share that opinion with you doesn't make them a snob, it makes them interesting. I can disagree with you about taste, but still understand and respect your opinion. A snob is someone who, upon discovering that you don't feel exactly the same way they do about beer, movies, post-post-modern art, etc, decides that you are not worth their time. It is a subtle, but very important, distinction.

American IPA

The retarded part of your argument is that while you are accusing me of being a snob, you are, in fact, being the snob. Just because you think something is over-hopped doesn't mean it tastes so to another person. Yet, you repeatedly attack those of us who enjoy a strong double West Coast IPA basically calling us liars ("The argument that people like these raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors is close to ridiculous"). It isn’t ridiculous; it's just that I don't have your tongue in my mouth.

Also, you age a barleywine because barleywines are meant to be aged. In fact, the "raw, over-hopped" beers you dislike typically cannot be cellared.

Your last paragraph makes perfect sense. However, your previous three paragraphs destroy any credibility you have. Therefore, I find it necessary to repeat (with a few minor edits) your comments so that these important words can be heard from a reasonable voice.

At the end of the day good beer is about your taste, not price. Taste, see what you like, and drink what tastes good to you. Too many people are afraid to tell the pretentious a-hole next to them that they don't like gagging on a beer that doesn't fit their particular taste profile, and end up drinking a "popular" beer instead of a good one.