George Michaels

James McClure:

I heard Father Figure today and it got me thinking:

1. What do you think about the 1980's music revival that we have been experiencing recently? I feel like Hall and Oats may end up with another #1 hit in the next year or so.

2. What happened to George Michaels? I went back and looked at some videos. He used to be the man. He had tons of models and sex with models in the videos. He was the man. How did he become the punch line for every anonymous-homosexual-hand-job-in-the-park joke?

Frank Leyland:

Wait!!! There is a 1980's music revival... Get the car fired up Donny McDork, we're getting the hell out of here!

I think the more interesting question is why did all forms of art suck in the 80's. My theory: The Personal Computer. There has always existed a nitch in our society for people who are commonly referred to as 'nerds'. Up until the mid 80's, this nitch was relatively small and powerless, as most jobs required strength and/or personality. The creation of a 'cheap' computer in the early 80's totally changed the skill set required of the successful American worker, drastically increasing the power of the 'nerd nitch'. People who understood words like "floppy disk" and "DOS" suddenly had more (or at least as much power) as those who were just handsome and charming. It was Darwinism at its finest. My theory (as I wasn't old enough to really experience the 80's) is that nerds, with their newfound power, invaded all forms of life; music, art, clothing, etc. Since they don't have any taste, everything suffered.

Not George Michaels?

Finally, George Michaels became the punch line for "anonymous-homosexual-hand-job-in-the-park jokes" because he got an anonymous homosexual hand job in the park. I think that falls under the category of "you are what you eat". Also, everyone who was born after 1986 confuses him for this guy...

James McClure:

I think it's even worse. I'm pretty sure that he was giving the hand-job.

Dude, I'm loving the holiday music. I'm blasting Last Christmas right now. I don't think that anyone else in the office appreciates this.

Frank Leyland:

It is after Thanksgiving so no one can really bust your balls about the music choice until New Years day. That being said, I'm not sure 'blasting' is the appropriate volume for a work environment unless your job takes place in one of the following settings: "Stadium/Arena" "fishing ship" or "Stage w/ or w/o pole"

Let's bring this conversation back to the 80's (and not the 1880's when half of your lame Christmas music was written). Don't you have any opinion on my Nerd Nitch theory?

James McClure:

Well, I would have to agree that the computer gave power to the nerds. Although, it also took power away from true nerds:

The computer has made tedious, number-crunching, accuracy and precision based tasks relatively easy. This has allowed more people to perform the tasks traditionally dominated by nerds. It has produced the effect of making more people "nerds", and the true, hardcore nerds less marketable.

Frank Leyland:

Yes, and yes. I totally agree that because our generation grew up with computers any advantage 'real nerds' had over everyone else has disappeared. Everyone is a 'nerd' now in the sense that they can work a pc, understand the internet, and even use it to create something awful (i.e. this anti-blog thing). I would point to our friend, Censored, as a great example of this. He definitely fits the strong and personable category and had he not grown up in the 90's (or later) would have never touched a PC. Instead he now crunches numbers for a large bank, essentially stealing a job only a 'true nerd' would have been able to perform in the 80's. He is better suited for this job because he has all of the technical skills a 'nerd' does without all of the awkwardness of a 'true nerd'.

This means that, ironically, the increased power of the 'nerd nitch' that the PC created in the 80's also caused the destruction of said nitch by the 90's, as everyone in our generation became a 'nerd'. As proof of my thesis I would like to point out that the destruction of most forms of art (interpretive dance still sucks, see video) was promptly reversed by the mid 90’s.

James McClure:

This has gone too far. You're up there making the rise and fall of the nerd sound like it fits into some Buddhist cycle. Look, it's simple. The computer is three things: 1) a giant filing system, 2) a giant calculator for complex calculations, 3) a communication device. Its widespread distribution is has replaced a good many things: people who add up numbers in neat rows, secretaries, the calculator, the typewriter, print news, shorthand, and comming soon - network/cable television, and radio.

There is a reason we no longer send telegraphs.

P.S. Was interpretive dance ever popular; worthwile; anything more than a reason for your gay friends to ask you to come to an event?

Doggystyle

Frank Leyland:

Wait, you're saying that Lewbowski's landlord was gay? That thought had not occurred to us dude.

You forgot to mention porn in your list of pc uses... unless giant filing system is your lame code for rub one out.

James McClure:

I'll concede that: the internet is the most penis-friendly invention since doggy-style.

Frank Leyland:

That was a great album...

Hops

James McClure:

[I forget, are you using a pen name?]

Man, we had some great beers on Friday. I'm curious, how do we start the Beer of the week feature?

I would like to start with Nemesis (I'm tempted to go back and get another glass while it is still on tap). To me it's the best beer that I have ever had. I still don't know how Founders did what they did.

Usually, I think that naming other tastes (not even close to beer) and comparing the beer to them is ridiculous. Here I'll make an exception and say that I can actually taste something that reminds me of Dark chocolate (It still sucks when you say that porters/stouts taste like coco-nibs. What are Coco-nibs, and where have you been to taste them.). There is an interesting blend of flavors that balances the total taste of the beer. This black barleywine is like no other un-aged barleywine that I have ever tasted. The only thing that comes close is some of the better 3-4 year bottle conditioned barleywines from last year's festival. I would choose one of these as my first drink in pretty much every month that has an "R". I gave two friends who don't like strong tasting beers one of these; they both ordered a second glass (regretfully, at 12% abv).

The Duck-Rabbit Milk stout was a very good Stout. I know that I like a beer that finishes a little cleaner than you do; this one was pretty much perfect for me. Really, I understand that you think the last taste in your mouth is watery; I just don't like face-making-flavors in my beer.

Finally, I thought that the Bell's Winter White Ale was good. More of what I've come to expect from Bell's. The name is descriptive, and the beer is a solid example of what you expected. This would be a great beer for any holiday occasion/

event - perfect to bring to parties. By the way, Bell's has a Barley Wine: Third Coast. It will become available Nov/Dec, through the spring.

Now, how do we start a feature? Where will it be posted? What type of text do we need to add? Etc...

Frank Leyland:

Warrior Hops

I get the "side bar" format (I’m done calling them “tid bits” because I want people to take us seriously) with info, video, and images from our discussion topic. However, beer of the week and “Say Say's” won't fit the topic and thus are satellite issues. I get that they are important, but I don't know if they should be in the same voice (i.e. two pricks arguing). What is the approach here?

Also, I dislike the terms you use to describe after taste (cleaner and face-making flavors). They are slanted towards an anti-after taste agenda. It sounds like you are trying to ban the use of warrior hops

James McClure:

Of course they are slanted. When you have the opportunity to label your argument you take advantage. I imagine that you will have trouble convincing our readers that face-making flavors are a good thing for beer. I'm also pretty sure that our readers desire a subtle, clean finish to their beer.

The bottom line is this. I'm sick of beer snobs looking down their nose at anyone who doesn't like the "complexity and flavor" of some beer that is over-hopped, unbalanced, and over 7% ABV (alcohol by volume). Do I like a lot of strong, highly stylized, micro-brewed beers? Yes. However, many of them are too strong, taste raw, and leave an after-taste that makes you gag as you swallow. Strong is good, but it cannot come at the expense of taste.

The argument that people like these raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors is close to ridiculous (similar to my argument that people think coffee is delicious, but everyone likes it better with cream and sugar).  If people really liked the strong, raw flavors of these beers, then they would prefer a young barley wine to one that has been cellar conditioned for a few years.

http://www.brewwiki.com/index.php/American_Barleywine No one has ever said that they prefer a barley wine at less than one year when compared to one that is 3 or 4 years old. Why? Because the bitter, raw flavors of both the hops and grains have been allowed to mellow in the aged beer - because you don't gag on the bitter-alcohol flavor when you swallow.

At the end of the day there are many expensive "good" beers that are not good beers. Taste, see what you like, and drink what tastes good to you. Too many people are afraid to tell the

pretentious a-hole next to them that they don't like gagging while drinking their beer - that they don't like being left with the taste of roasted death in their mouth after every sip.

Frank Leyland:

You can make up any words you want to slant the argument in your direction, it is my job to point out the fact that you are using hyperbolic language meant to persuade without facts. I would like to point out that you have continued to use absurd rhetoric (raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors) in your inane discussion. Speaking of which, let's delve into the "points" you have attempted to make.

First off, I totally agree with you that snobbery of any kind is to be generally avoided. Taste is a personal matter and you should be allowed to like what you like, regardless of what some a-hole tells you. That being said you should:

1. Not care what an asshole thinks

2. Be able to have a discussion about the taste of a beer without crying like a little bitch when the other person doesn't totally agree with you.

Someone who has a different opinion and is willing to share that opinion with you doesn't make them a snob, it makes them interesting. I can disagree with you about taste, but still understand and respect your opinion. A snob is someone who, upon discovering that you don't feel exactly the same way they do about beer, movies, post-post-modern art, etc, decides that you are not worth their time. It is a subtle, but very important, distinction.

American IPA

The retarded part of your argument is that while you are accusing me of being a snob, you are, in fact, being the snob. Just because you think something is over-hopped doesn't mean it tastes so to another person. Yet, you repeatedly attack those of us who enjoy a strong double West Coast IPA basically calling us liars ("The argument that people like these raw, unbalanced, bitter, alcohol flavors is close to ridiculous"). It isn’t ridiculous; it's just that I don't have your tongue in my mouth.

Also, you age a barleywine because barleywines are meant to be aged. In fact, the "raw, over-hopped" beers you dislike typically cannot be cellared.

Your last paragraph makes perfect sense. However, your previous three paragraphs destroy any credibility you have. Therefore, I find it necessary to repeat (with a few minor edits) your comments so that these important words can be heard from a reasonable voice.

At the end of the day good beer is about your taste, not price. Taste, see what you like, and drink what tastes good to you. Too many people are afraid to tell the pretentious a-hole next to them that they don't like gagging on a beer that doesn't fit their particular taste profile, and end up drinking a "popular" beer instead of a good one.

Pliny the Elder

Frank Leyland:

I'm drinking a Pliny the elder on tap in San Diego right now. It's delicious... Fuck you and your non-hop agenda

James McClure:

You know that I like hoppy beers. It's just that not all hoppy beers are good, and hoppier does not always mean better.

Lost Abbey 

Frank Leyland:

Now I'm drinking Lost Abbey Deliverance.

Equally amazing but totally different. Strong malty bourbon finish. Unreal.

Yes I know you like good beer of all profiles. But if we don't 'pick sides' and yell at each other why in the world would anyone read this.

Side Bar: Hops - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops

James McClure:

P.S. Let's not ever talk about my tongue in your mouth again. Just reading that sentence while proof reading made me gag a bit.